(no subject)

[adiva_calandia]

. . . Zach campaigned for Claire, bought her a book, and now they're looking deep into each other's eyes and discussing their relative levels of niceness to each other, and you tell me the writers were writing him as gay?

Good lord, I don't blame the actor for "having a different take on the character." If I hadn't been TOLD to play him gay in that scene, there's no way I would've played it as anything but a prelude to an awkward-teenage-kiss scene.

And if I were the writers and I was trying to hint that Zach is gay, I would've nixed the soft romantic chords in the background. Come ON.

--Followed by Jackie calling Zach gay, which at least lends that theory some credence. Bitch she is, and accusing a straight boy of being gay is a lot less cruel than outing a closeted gay one.

Let me make it clear -- I'm fine with Zach being gay, and in fact I applaud the show for even considering the idea; he may be a token character, but token characters are a step towards non-token characters. And if he is gay, I applaud even more heartily the fact that he's not played as a lisping, limp-wristed fashionista.

However. I do demand a level of consistency, especially from a show that, overall, seems to write its relationships well (Matt/Janice, no matter how creepy; Hiro-Ando; Peter/Simone; etc). And if nothing else, this scene in "Homecoming" is not acted, scored, or totally written as straight girl-gay friend. The dialogue could possibly have been played that way, but not without specific direction.

This is where I could go into token gay characters and why I appreciate them, but I think I would need more space and a better thesis to write that.

*HUGS MOHINDER FOREVER*

*HUGS CLAIRE AND PETER FOREVER*

*WINCES HARDCORE AT PETER*

Haaaah, Eden is a Jedi.

*CLINGS TO HIRO AND CHARLIE*

Comments

[shati.livejournal.com]

Er, this is the episode that had to be rewritten because the actor/his manager objected. Does that make more sense?

[adiva_calandia]

*eyes it* It explains why Jackie would call him gay out of the blue, but it doesn't excuse the inconsistency. Rar. *grumps and nitpicks* I may have to rewatch the scene with that in mind so it'll quit bothering me.

[shati.livejournal.com]

Which inconsistency?

[adiva_calandia]

I was still holding "Zach overall written as gay" and "Zach played as straight in this scene" in my head -- but if they've changed his character overall, then it's consistent and I'm just S-M-R-T and can go back to 'shipping them. :D

But I agree with you -- it would've been a nice twist. *sigh* Alas.

[shati.livejournal.com]

Well, they haven't, necessarily; the one writer interview I've read on the subject said he still considers Zach gay, they just can't make it explicit. And I'm pretty sure it was only those few lines removed, so the scenes that pinged your straight radar would have all still been in it. But I figured it was there to lead up to the twist, not to make Zach straight, if that makes sense. And I do think they work just as well as Zach overidentifying with Claire's I'm-a-freak-ness.

[adiva_calandia]

Zach overidentifying with Claire's I'm-a-freak-ness

*eyes the slightly later scene in Claire's bedroom and nods a lot* That all makes sense, yeah.

Hm. Well, then, as long as I'm on the thought of token gay characters -- not making it explicit makes him less of a token and more . . . incidentally gay? I can't think of a simple term for it. It's like Simone is black, but the important part of her character isn't that she's black, it's that she's Simone. Yeah? So if Zach is not a gay stereotype, just Claire's friend who happens to be gay, that's cool. But they would need to make it a little more obvious, still. But not without making a big deal of it . . .

Grah, now I have no idea how I feel about it. I'll have to just go for "Yay Zach and Claire" and leave - or / up for discussion.

[shati.livejournal.com]

I should probably add -- I think the only change was the cutting of a few lines to the effect of "um, you know I don't like girls, right?" after Claire asked why he wouldn't go with her to Homecoming. But if those lines had been there, it would have worked brilliantly for me as a twist on the standard "and then they fall in love and dance at the prom" thing. Because yeah, it looks like Zach's got a crush on her, and then -- oops, he's gay, and he just needs a friend who's going through something similar.

[adiva_calandia]

--Actually yes it does help. *dumb* Gotcha.

[skygiants]

See, I actually just think the show is not interested in writing romantic relationships.

Because Matt/Janice is creepy (and not that interesting, in my opinion) and Peter/Simone and Simone/Isaac seem to be there more as sort of a "oh yeah, we need to have a love interest, don't we" than for any other reason. All the most interesting relationships - to my mind - and the ones that the show seems most invested in are either familial, or platonic friendships like Hiro-Ando.

[shati.livejournal.com]

And the two most popular 'ships in the fandom (judging by amount of fic written) are both incestuous. Heh.

I do agree, and it's something I like about the show, coming off the Jossverse and its overwhelming romantic melodrama.

Disussing Heroes > studying for final.

[adiva_calandia]

Matt/Janice is creepy, but realistic, which is why I like it -- I imagine a lot of people would use their newly discovered telepathy to spy on their loved ones' thoughts.

You have a point about P/S and S/I. *snickers* I do like the familial relationships -- the Bennetts in particular.

(Y'know, as long as I have TV characters breaking stereotypes on the mind, I can't help thinking about how cool it is that there are not one, not two, but three romantic interracial relationships on this show, and none of them are highlighted. They could just as easily have been all-white couples, but they're not, and no one is like "LOOK, INTERRACIAL COUPLES. LET US HIGHLIGHT ISSUES OF RACE FOR YOU BY SUBJECTING OUR CHARACTERS TO PREJUDICE OR SIMILAR."

It is a very cool thing. :D)

[skygiants]

Oh, it's totally realistic. I just . . . don't enjoy watching it as much as I enjoy watching most of the other things that happen in the show. Also, because I adore Audrey. >.>

(That is definitely one of the things that is cool that they do. Heroes has some - iffy racial and gender issues on one hand, but it does do some very neat things with the other hand. *stretches metaphor* And with all its flaws, it's definitely one of the better shows on TV for those readings.)

[aberration]

... I have to say, I've had the total opposite reaction from their relationship in general, and that's knowing that Zach was essentially "ungayed" or whatever. While I sensed something of feelings from her (though even so with that, not that much - pretty much only in a gratitude, 'this is how I should feel for a guy who's doing so much for me' sort of way), I never got anything of the sort of him - all of his actions, to me, seemed to be out of a very genuine friendship and admiration for Claire, not out of ulterior motives or having a crush on her. He always just seemed down-to-earth and aware that Claire was never really the empty-headed, popular cheerleader she thought she should be. Sort of like winning her over from the "dark side," which is Jackie.

And as we haven't seen him for a while, if we don't see him again, I'll personally just always consider him as being gay, and we'll see if they get around to contradicting it.

[adiva_calandia]

*nod* And I see where you're coming from, too -- most of his character is very neutral. He's Claire's friend, and that's what's important; his sexuality isn't important to the relationship.

Except for this scene, where the possibility of romance is suddenly played up. Knowing he had been written vaguely gay up to this point, and then having that scene thrown in without knowing that this was the ep that got changed . . . I found it very, very jarring.

Aw, he disappears? :( But he's cool! No matter if it's Claire-Zach or Claire/Zach, he's good for her and I like him.